It's interesting to compare notes about this stuff.
My trajectory was pretty different, since I worked at Cato in 2004 to 2005, and although at the time I wasn't very comfortable there because I wasn't libertarian enough, I still have been a consistent libertarian fellow traveler all this time.
That's different, and yet I've also converged more to a classical liberal identity in reaction to the obscenities of MAGA populism. When conservatism meant free market + family values fusionism, distinguishing myself as a libertarian, not a conservative, wasn't a particularly appealing move, even if on some issues, especially immigration, it fit. Now conservatism is so degraded that such scruples seem silly.
What are your thoughts on the William Cavanaugh/Eugene Mccarraher strain of postliberalism? This was sort of my jam as an undergraduate and it seems like they are under discussed these days.
It gave an interesting historical and theological narrative that was strongly critical of state power but also took the more humanistic elements of Marx seriously.
As bookish aspiring Christian pacificist/anarchist seeing Catholics taking commodity fetishism, alienation, etc. seriously and trying to outline a more historical, sacramental, and ecclesial theology of liberation was inspiring.
It might be the form of postliberalism closest to left-libertarianism. I wound up in a very different place but the stuff was fun to read!
This was a cool intellectual journey to read, thanks for sharing
"I’ve learned to love liberty (not license!) in a way I didn’t before. I don’t believe any of that is incompatible with the Aristotelian tradition in which I was educated. There are certain insights, however, that the classical liberals reached more quickly and with greater penetration as modernity advanced. In part because the modern Caesar rose so quickly and forcefully that it was harder for the Aristotelians, with their teleological “good-government” perspective, to immediately perceive the extent of the danger, or get a handle on what was happening."
Completely agree. Liberty is now our of fashion on the right because of its abuses, but there is still a real value there.
"We can’t come back together so long as postliberals are determined to reject a long-standing American conservative tradition that we still need."
"You can’t reach a reasonable, grounded perspective on contemporary politics if you’re determined to treat economics as a joke science"
100%
"Looking more specifically at Christianity and its place within the Western political tradition, you’re unlikely to get anywhere good if the rejection of limited government logic is itself a constituent part of your view."
Yep, it's an ahistorical overreaction to liberalism's excesses/defects
It's interesting to compare notes about this stuff.
My trajectory was pretty different, since I worked at Cato in 2004 to 2005, and although at the time I wasn't very comfortable there because I wasn't libertarian enough, I still have been a consistent libertarian fellow traveler all this time.
That's different, and yet I've also converged more to a classical liberal identity in reaction to the obscenities of MAGA populism. When conservatism meant free market + family values fusionism, distinguishing myself as a libertarian, not a conservative, wasn't a particularly appealing move, even if on some issues, especially immigration, it fit. Now conservatism is so degraded that such scruples seem silly.
What are your thoughts on the William Cavanaugh/Eugene Mccarraher strain of postliberalism? This was sort of my jam as an undergraduate and it seems like they are under discussed these days.
Like left-libertarianism, I find this phenomenon fascinating but haven’t had a chance to dig into it much. What was the attraction for you?
It gave an interesting historical and theological narrative that was strongly critical of state power but also took the more humanistic elements of Marx seriously.
As bookish aspiring Christian pacificist/anarchist seeing Catholics taking commodity fetishism, alienation, etc. seriously and trying to outline a more historical, sacramental, and ecclesial theology of liberation was inspiring.
It might be the form of postliberalism closest to left-libertarianism. I wound up in a very different place but the stuff was fun to read!
This was a cool intellectual journey to read, thanks for sharing
"I’ve learned to love liberty (not license!) in a way I didn’t before. I don’t believe any of that is incompatible with the Aristotelian tradition in which I was educated. There are certain insights, however, that the classical liberals reached more quickly and with greater penetration as modernity advanced. In part because the modern Caesar rose so quickly and forcefully that it was harder for the Aristotelians, with their teleological “good-government” perspective, to immediately perceive the extent of the danger, or get a handle on what was happening."
Completely agree. Liberty is now our of fashion on the right because of its abuses, but there is still a real value there.
"We can’t come back together so long as postliberals are determined to reject a long-standing American conservative tradition that we still need."
I'm not a fan of the term "conservative" or "conservatism (See my post Conservatives are Losers https://christendomcoalition.substack.com/p/what-is-the-christendom-coalition?r=2efta9&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web) but I definitely agree with the thrust of what you're saying. If you reject everything about the American tradition, then there is something deeply wrong about that. So yes to the extent that conservatism = respecting tradition(s) then definitely.
"You can’t reach a reasonable, grounded perspective on contemporary politics if you’re determined to treat economics as a joke science"
100%
"Looking more specifically at Christianity and its place within the Western political tradition, you’re unlikely to get anywhere good if the rejection of limited government logic is itself a constituent part of your view."
Yep, it's an ahistorical overreaction to liberalism's excesses/defects